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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 30, 2010 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Are you serious? Blackbird, Back in the USSR and Helter Skelter are lightweight fluff? And 'an album of just John's would still be a masterpiece'? Come off it. It seems to be the music buff's default posturing position that Lennon was some sort of transcendent genius ripe for sainthood, whereas McCartney is dismissed out of hand as a makeweight because he had the nerve to write actual songs with tunes (oh how quaintly naive) as opposed to sour-faced extended whinges. And quite frankly anyone who has the bare-faced effrontery to unleash the horror that is Imagine on an unsuspecting world has got one hell of a lot to answer for.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Mar 30, 2010 12:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

It is funny how this has gone over the years, around the time of Imagine, ( yeah, might be over ratted, but still maybe the best post Beatles Beatle album , I prefer All Things Must Pass), myself) John looked like the genius , and Paul the dummy , and Paul's next 2 albums didn't help ( Wild Life, and Red Rose Speedway ), and people applied this to the Beatles , retroactively . A few more years, and Johns' solo star had been tarnished a bit by some lackluster efforts, and Paul had bounced back with Band on the Run, and Venus and Mars , and I think people began to question the "John=smart, Paul-dumb" evaluation .
Not too may people could write as seemingly slight,but ingeniously beautiful song as "Mother Nature's Son" . Most of theBeatles career , I'm prefer John's songs, but Paul WAS amazing .

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 30, 2010 1:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Here is where I defn agree with you, and I buy, though it may be a myth, that L&Mc WERE the team...alone, I think both suck, and JL moreso...just didn't want to say it outloud til someone else did...

Now, as to the debate of HOW the two of them worked, I dunno (ie, did they only write "together" early? Then it was more of "show me this!" then "take that shit away!" or whatever version you like, I still think they worked wonders while in the same band til bout 68...(sorry!)

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 30, 2010 1:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Hey I was expecting a visit from the Lennonite Assassination Squad after that post; glad to know you're standing with me - all 6'3 and 230 pounds and sharpened bolts in hand.

Anyway, here's an interview Macca gave at the time of the White Album where he talks about the writing process.

http://www.dmbeatles.com/interviews.php?interview=66

Worth looking at alongside the Lennon/Playboy interview Larry linked for me earlier:

http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/dbjypb.int4.html

I'm sure the two of them did a lot of their own mythologising about how the songs came about. We can only speculate as to how much of the post-Beatles decline resulted from the lack of cross-fertilisation when they were no longer working together and how much was simply down to both men's most creative period having simply passed.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 30, 2010 1:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Bingo!

Why, in no time I'll be claiming EVERY post of value you EVER posted here (hmmm, well...okay, maybe just one or two jokes...).

If I were to write the history of mss I collaborated on with coauthors 25 yrs ago I KNOW it would be very diff from their version...this is one aspect in which the post modernist twits got something (w)right! Dumbasses...

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Poster: Jobygoob Date: Mar 31, 2010 8:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

I went on to those links and read some of those interviews, what a great repository of info. I saw that John Lennon, in a 1980 interview and Paul McCartney in a 90s interview both continued to profess that the song Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds was not written about LSD. They swore up and down, Lennon until right before his death even, that they didn't even notice the initials until well after the song was recorded. Why would they continue to perpetuate this denial twenty to thirty years after the song was recorded? It is such an obvious fabrication as to be completely ludicrous. Is it a case of a story being repeated so often that they have convinced themselves it is true, and they really believe it?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 31, 2010 8:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Re Lucy - you might just want to take a look at this and then see what you think. Maybe they were telling the truth all these years...

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/beatles/article6852494.ece

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Poster: Jobygoob Date: Mar 31, 2010 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

I remember that news story of the girl, and completely believe that story of Julian's picture being the inspiration for the song. But seriously, how could anyone possibly believe that the song was not a (very thinly)veiled reference to an LSD trip? Why would the Beatles continue to disavow the connection thirty years later?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 31, 2010 10:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Given the fact that they were a bunch of scally Scousers it's more than likely that they knew exactly what they were doing when they titled that song. If you ask me, it's a wind up - and they got exactly the reaction they hoped for. As I said about Garcia yesterday, they had a mischievous sense of humour.

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 31, 2010 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

typical spineless. let somebody else say what you think then make a lame follow up....

do you even have an original thought ever? Could you act on it?

Sorry your glasses must be fogged up.. JL and PM wrote fantastic songs. Hunter/Barlow/Garcia/wire are barely in the same league! That what make teh GD such a phenomenon, not the lyrics the MAGIC!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 31, 2010 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Wait a minute, GN--thought you were another poster, jerking me around (though I don't know where the "spineless" comes from if you've read any of my posts)...

Now, you completely mis-read what I said above now that I re-read your flame post: I said EXACTLY that JL & PM WERE great song writers, TOGETHER, until the late 60s...what's not to get? I was only pointing out that when they wrote on their own, they sucked...

In fact, if you asked me, I rank those two vs Hunter and the DEAD, yep, I agree, they exceed them...now, I happen to like the DEAD a lot more, but I'd grant that...

Think you need to start reading a little more clearly...

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 31, 2010 1:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

got you confused ehh! Spineless was just because you where waiting for somebody else to say it so you could then agree....
Anyway, I'm not taking things very seriously. I agree with what you say in your last post so whats to argue about?




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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 31, 2010 1:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

To say JL ALONE (without PM) sucked was what I agreed with--have you heard of sarcasm?

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-03-31 20:43:12

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 31, 2010 2:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

I was once told that I invented sarcasm.... it's not true..

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 31, 2010 2:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

I can believe that...you're just not good enough.

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Poster: fritzie101 Date: Mar 31, 2010 2:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

some audio -
http://www.archive.org/details/JamSession-SelectedSongsFromLetItBeFilmShootMastered-1969
http://www.archive.org/details/TheRealRooftopConcert-LetItBeFilmShoot1969
http://www.archive.org/details/ADayNTheLifeSession
http://www.archive.org/details/LetItBe-RadioProgrammeAndExclusiveRaritiesMix

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 31, 2010 2:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Being the so-called 'somebody else' who you allege Tell spinelessly agreed with, I feel I'm entitled to interject here. You are so far out of line compass and sextant won't get you back on course. Tell doesn't wait for someone to agree with, he agrees because he really does agree, and he is man enough to acknowledge when someone else has made a good point. If he doesn't agree, he has the knowledge and the ability to quote chapter and verse as to exactly why he doesn't agree and he will state his disagreement in a generally polite and respectful manner that is diametrically opposed to your uncouth display. You owe him an apology for not according him the respect he extended to you. You will note also, I trust, that in this instance I am according you more respect than I really think you deserve. Next time I won't.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 31, 2010 12:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Hey Butt Nutt--read the sequence as to "timing" of posts and you'll see I said it ALL bout Paul...that's what STARTED the whole sequence that was just so much "addition" to my original thought...right?

Sorry, you just got confused by the out of order sequence on the board.

But, yeah, I'll agree with Rob most any day--even before he posts...

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 31, 2010 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

yes here is more of your style

-insults (fueled by your insane paranoia!)
-back pedal..

All you want is more hot air up your behind. Well from me all you get is an ice cube...

Now go think if something original to say...










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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 31, 2010 1:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Yep; you got me pegged--does make it easier here though, eh?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 30, 2010 1:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Yea, but he did give us Hey Jude, easily among the most overrated songs in rock history (well, actually, maybe Imagine does take the cake). Then again, a nice gesture to Julian since his pop was pretty much an ass to his mum and their son.

That said, I like Macca and appreciate that he keeps experimenting and exploring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PlnMkwws6A&;feature=related

Also, for an old geezer, he still puts on quite a show. His set at Coachella was pretty damn good and it was hard for all the "hipsters" and "scenesters" not to grin and sing along (kind of like Tom Petty at Bonnaroo).

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Mar 30, 2010 8:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

Yes, quite serious. Helter Skelter is lightweight fluff, as are most of the Beatles' songs. It's also one of my favorite songs. You probably define "fluff" differently!

I think you might be misunderstanding me.... One thing I meant was, Paul's White Album songs as a group tend to sound a lot like a Paul solo album, catchy & sweet & sometimes silly. John's songs seem much more varied than he'd usually be on his solo albums; I think there's a lot of strong stuff there (hence the 'masterpiece' claim), but that's just an opinion.
Of course there are exceptions, like Paul's rockers you mentioned - after all it's a Beatles group album with a huge range of songs, not just a bunch of solo tunes thrown together as John sometimes claimed.
You could have also interpreted me as saying not that Paul was the 'lesser makeweight', but that John's the one who needed more help from Paul!
Mainly I just wanted to say that the same song can come across differently in a different context - a banal claim, no doubt. Many a Beatles classic would be little-regarded if it had been on a '70s solo album instead....

One of Paul's quirks is that he likes to do 'genre' songs, so we saw a lot of those on that album - the western song, the '20s song, the Beach Boys rocker, etc.... He's very good at doing those kinds of compositions; whereas John on that album (with some exceptions) was going more for 'personal' songs that "said" something. To you that's sour-faced whining; so be it, that doesn't matter.
As a songwriter, Paul likes - I don't know the technical words - kind of swooping melodies that cover a lot of vocal range. Whereas John tended to write a lot of songs that hovered around one note - very easy to sing, not much melodic range. So I think that might be one thing you're referring to when you say Paul wrote "actual songs with tunes".
You might like Paul's usual optimistic tone more, as well. John in many of his later-Beatle songs swung back & forth between meaningless gobbledegook and bitter, sad or satiric songs - sometimes both at once. Paul tended to stay more on an even, often comic keel. He also didn't write many of the "social message" songs that John took so seriously in the early '70s!

Yes, John inflicted Imagine on us. There were a bunch of good songs on that album. He also did the Plastic Ono Band album - whiny to be sure - catchy lightweight fluff, not so much. Paul inflicted much worse on us (in the early '70s, too) than Imagine. George of course, took everyone by surprise with All Things (which was almost all songs J&P had rejected from Let It Be since they didn't want to do them)....

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 31, 2010 2:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beatles

You are in fact basically right.
You need a day job!
cheers...